Lotro champion solo. My personal favorite us guardian. Lotro champion solo

 
 My personal favorite us guardianLotro champion solo  Live-Ad-6309

Delvings can be done Solo or Duo. Yellow line with added. We plan on finishing content on our main characters (Hunter/Captain) but wanted to start fresh with a new combo. +2% to One-handed and Two-handed Sword Damage. LOTRO is nice enough to give exact population numbers by class if there are less than 100 players. I would experiment with each and see which feels better for you, but I generally think yellow is the way to go. Burg is pretty easy to play solo. Today, the top DPSers are the Sword and Board folks (Captain, Champion, Guardian) and the Rune-keeper. Disclaimer, my build is an adaptation of. not entirely true, up to 4-5 targets yes champ will heve beter dps, providing he lives, above that its wardens spot under the stars, group up 10 mobs and dot them down, while your morale dont flinch. I'd advise against a Captain, because the damage is really not great for solo play. . I tried a new Guardian on Difficulty 3, solo, and, with full crit crafted gear, he only got to level 13 before the Eye of Sauron stacks and debuffs got him one-shot by a minor boss. If you want to deal damage in groups, you can choose Champion or Rune-keeper. A Captain can tank a little/ damage a little/ AoE a little and heal a little. Area dps: best dpser for 6 targets, 2nd best for 10 targets after yellow champion. garethdb. So you're not going to see loot changes from enabling it. I have pretty much all classes (haven't gone far with wardens, beornings, or brawlers yet) and they mostly solo. Tailor Review: Crafts light and medium armor. Red is definitely easier to play well (very fixed rotation that uses about 7 skills plus 3 buff skills), and adapting to yellow isn't simple once you know red. 5. By Jason. ago. For reasons i mentioned way above in my former post. Warden is harder than others to learn the skills and play. Cisru711. In DPS spec anyway. It was one of the biggest things I missed when I tried classes other than hunter (which. As for Champion, I've read widely varied reports, with some folks saying that Blue line gives them enough survivability to solo 3-mans and other folks saying that even in Blue. Welcome, here you will find a build for Blue Champion, tuned for tanking. ago. Welcome to my LOTRO gameplay guide talking about the best solo class to play in Lord of the Rings Online in 2023. If your play style is to charge in and just kill everything, yellow champ is the way to go. December 03, 2018 / Roger Edwards. 5 points in Morale, meaning you’ll have +2643 in Morale. Champions and Wardens aren't bad due to Champs killing AOE quickly and Wardens because they can muster around as well. You will solo basically everything, including fellowship quests, warbands, RTs and Scourges. Beorning and captains healing lines need to be brought more in-line with RK and Minstrel which are fine. EDIT: Don't use debuff vitals. • 3 yr. Warden, Beorning, and champion tanks could be buffed. Runekeeper is squishy. Many classes are bloated. 2. 4) Champion. If in a fight the odds turn against you can switch your stance to 'Ardour' or 'Glory' and use some defence skills like 'Sudden Defence', 'Blocking Blades' and/or the emergency skill. Track deeds needed to award Virtues. A warrior line, forgoing the shield for better weapons. However, Yellow guardian is really fun and viable for the lower levels until about 75 ish, then Red/Blue become better. This LotRO champion guide goes into detail about every single skill, stat, and trait, giving any champion an edge in battle. Someone call it boring, someone fun. other end of the spectrum, the Champion may want to have a DPS. Red-line guardian seems like it may be better at high level, but again only level 46 so not sure. Brawler, Champion, Burglar, Hunter, minstrel. Slotting 4 traits. Most people think we are just button mashing fools but as Spiderman said, âWith great power comes great responsibility. I'd advise against a Captain, because the damage is really not great for solo play. This means soloing instances. Warden has worse DPS. Background: I started LOTRO shortly after Moria launch, finally capped and started end-game during Mirkwood and cleared everything on-level T2C from BG through the Erebor trio. Updated: January 29, 2023. At the current level cap (140) with the current endgame raid (Hiddenhoard), the Brawler is only viable as a Tank in high tiers. I think people are trying to tell me that the yellow-line cooldowns are much faster so they can do more DPS over a. 5 points in Morale, meaning you’ll have +2643 in Morale. When playing any MMO, every player wants to choose the most powerful class, and Lord of the Rings Online is no exception. Example of static yellow champion rotation for simplicity and results. Yellow Champion DPS is good for AoE only now. But, for most other things my Captain is also ahead on damage. Captain is slightly slower but still ok. . Capt is just crappy solo past moria, doable but so slow, still not a bad suggestion starting out. r/lotro. BoroTungsteno. Landscape capable/questing. either battle or healing,. This guide is designed for Champion players just starting out in The Lord of the Rings. As for groups, yes, you will most probably be required to heal. If it doesn’t crit, don’t stop, just keep rotation going, use Wild Attack again soon to get that buff up. You're really going to love the town teleport skills of the Warden. Plus you have the option for Single Target or AoE or DoT. It's not slow by any measure. We don't match burglars for straight DPS or for multi-target cleave. some basic AOE skill i forget and also add traits to decrease attack duration(red line). Which is better solo? They're both squishy tactical classes so you might have issues with survivability in the lower levels, but after 20-30 they can both handle everything the landscape throws at them. However, some are inherently faster, some slower, some easier, some more difficult. Champion is a solid first class choice. With this setup, I can quickly solo level 100 School, Library, every 3-man on tier 1 and several 6-man instances on Tier 1, and several Tier 3 Skirmishes. ago. Sadly champions will never get to make their own honey cakes. Warden will be the faster option. Tips and tricks for the Lord of the Rings Online! This LOTRO guide focuses on leveling and beginner tips in 2022. Red is better at the start i think. Surgewolf • Arkenstone • 8 mo. Champion is more fun (for me) and easier to play. Amstutztyson. Recently found out that it's the cause for my major FPS drops while raiding. Bear is badass (I like big bear butts and I cannot lie). That self-heal is so comfy :D Amazed by what a noob can do with a Beorning :v. After WA, use Rend to debuff your. I mostly try to tank in instances yet in solo quests I can barely do damage and it can take be up to 7-8 abilities to kill lvl 22 orc. There are a total of 7 Races and 11 Classes in LOTRO. 2. Aquiella1209 • Evernight • 2 mo. And I've tried to check around but. A captain will have better survivability, so you could tank a couple mobs, it just might take awhile. The strategy, from character creation to endgame, remains unwaveringly simple: charge in,. On my server, you'd have to get into high tier raiding for someone to even mention it, other than maybe as a joke. Mar 24, 2021. This guide will cover Hunter build suggestions, which virtues to slot, which vocations are useful, and tips on how to play your Hunter. Gameplay: Champions wade into battle swinging their weapons in all directions, dealing. red line single wep solo- 2 hand weapon begin by decreasing attack duration with. Hunter has a few solo leveling travel perks that are real nice to have, but it's a one trick DPS. 3. After the recent update they are decent at solo dps for your weekly and other activities. This is the LOTRO Basics class page for the Champion class in the Lord of the Rings Online - containing a list of class guides and resources with the goal to provide the community with up-to-date and current information on the class! This page was last updated during Update 32, in March 2022. They are one of the easiest classes to play out-of-the-box. Overall just fairly easy to pull off and really efficient for killing certain mobs in a fort or clearing an area to pick up something :) Burg ist good to play solo, makes good damage versus pve. Cerix •. I hate to quote numbers for this, but I averaged about 30 - 50 DPS more for duel-wield. LOTRO Champion Class Guides and Resources. Caveat that burglar only gets super fast in later levels (say 45+). Questing There are plenty of solo quests in lotro, which makes it completely feasible at the level. Had to chime in. 3. The Champion has very strong AOE abilities and is considered one of the best DPS classes in LOTRO. com Port 443Hunter is easiest for brand new player. Tank: Guardian. It's only for yellow line and im. Polite correction…. Later you'll have the opportunity to try and peck away at group quests solo if you want, or a couple dangerous areas where it'd be difficult to fight more than one enemy at a time. 7. Solo'd a bunch of instances with yellow guardian on level, red i've been using for open world stuff and blue for groups. For melee, go Champion and turn enemies to minced meat. Pick a good solo dps class (Hunter, Champion, Beorning, Rune-Keeper, Minstrel) or a class with extra travel skills (Warden, Hunter). May 9, 2023. If you're going solo, pick Explorer as crafting, gather mats but don't craft stuff. Seems like Champion is a good choice for this. In addition, they are the only absolutely safe soldier in Rescue at Nûrz Ghâshu’s boss fight. The minstrel is really awesome right now. Fought that boss somewhat recently. As for raids, no idea but I. Captain is limited to a 6 target taunt + 2 single targets, Guards have higher numbers. Beornings are a lot of fun and great for soloing. Last time i played i mained a Champ but i would like to start over again and lvling a new Class. Can’t beat running around, hacking and slashing with a giant 2-handed sword. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright. Red (first tier) has tratis to immediately start buffing skills. . However, soloing in glory is, well, time-consuming. It has a heal which Brawler lacks (big minus for me), which probably makes solo easier at some point in instances. But that is from a time when weapon swapping was a also a thing. +260 to Block, Parry, Evade. Extremely high Morale (that's your health bar in LOTRO), heavy armor, heavy shield, abilities specialized for attracting all that aggro to yourself - all of that makes your Guardian a walking Humvee. Obviously you want the fervor traits so you can use your bigger hits more often. If you’re wanting to play LOTRO solo, without a fellowship or friends, many of the classes are capable of solo questing and completing. Dedicated to The Lord of the Rings Online, the MMORPG based on Professor J. Even if hiting hard sometimes, you cant spam them. Men get a small 2H sword damage bonus trait. authoridad. 2. Then you want your character's main stat (Might for Captains), Physical Mastery, Critical Hit and Finesse from your virtues so pick the virtues that prioritise those. Make a new shield category for champions for the. Brawlers can also headbutt and throw tankards at people so they are 100% Prancing Pony certified ready for RP :P. They have a severe lack of self-sustainability compared to the perks the other classes get. LOTRO Dynamic Map - This site has all of the maps in the game, along with the location of every deed, quest item, warband, and all vendor services. Yellow works for some stuff but blue is best. Yellow works for some stuff but blue is best. Best Solo or Duo Class for leveling and a some skirmishing / instances. For solo questing, every class can reasonably get you through to the end, killing enemies quickly or slowly. Wardens are a medium armor class, they don't have the. Only the strongest classes will survive. In this guide, I hope to help you in learning about the classes! Champions lack (self) sustain while in yellow, and can be overwhelmed easily while in red. Very fast gap closers like DK grasp, Charge, Heroic Leap, Rogue hook, Paladin Steed from WoW do not exist in LOTRO. • 9 mo. Produced by Ghyn. However, in looking over the skills they appear underwhelming in the AOE department (on 3 mobs and only on mettle spenders) and healing. Survivability is not a virtue of the Champion class. Either will do fine leveling. With Update 28 en 29 there have been a lot of changes to the way of acquiring scrolls and crystals. So my advice if you plan to play most of the time solo, or just want to be dps in grps, stay away from captain. • Blood-lust (red) Wild Attack gives 1 additional fervour after crits. • 1 yr. generally, man is the best choice for most classes. One big hammer strike and the rest is budget champion. Wit is an excellent choice for any class. Burglar: Stealth is a fun gimmick for a while but ends up becoming part and parcel of the class, rotation is simple, basic but skills feel clunky, not great AOE but has some AOE cleave. The higher tier traits aren't that appealing to me. Lower level itemization is just a mess, stuff is all over the place. Once you have some trait points, start taking a look at yellow. This profession can be found in the following vocations: Armourer, Explorer, Yeoman. Champions build Fervour during combat to use as a resource to unleash their most powerful skills. 3. DPS guards aren't really a thing except in solo, and solo LOTRO is boring (aside from leveling ofc) Champions on the other hand are an AoE DPS class which focuses on either dual-wielding or 2h weapons (your choice--it doesn't really matter). The Champion is a free class that came with the original launch of LOTRO. Physical Mitigation reduces incoming physical damage. Champions deal awesome amounts of damage, which cover a greater area of effect. So I think red is better. I have a Champion on both regular and legendary servers. My opinion from my own experience: Lore-master feels more ad-hoc than Runekeeper. You should have a bow skill by now that is solely for pulling enemies. We hope this guide will be useful to you. Warden (theoretically highest output, just a victim of lag) Burglar. 2. And strongly advise you to learn all three lines, just for the variety, but also because yellow is what you will most use in. Survivability means for a Champion to do as much as damage so the mob (s) will die before the Champion. I enjoy all the spell effects from the RK but Ranged DPS or Heals is just not my thing, I had alot of fun leveling a RK with a small group of friends. The red champion wielding a 2 hd weapon is doing massive amounts of ST melee damage. Also group requests at levels like yours are absolutely no indicator of. In LOTRO, each class has three specializations which allows them to narrow their focus, boosting their abilities in a certain role. New Player Champion Build. Champion is the best for DPS. I’ve been playing a Rune-keeper in LOTRO on and off since 2008, and I thoroughly enjoy it. If you're going solo, pick Explorer as crafting, gather mats but don't craft stuff. Welcome, here you will find a build for Blue Champion, tuned for tanking. MadMaxIsMadAsMax • 6 yr. Champion. Explain "efficiency" in your statement, please. Cerix •. Champion Starter Build Guide for the Lord of the Rings Online! LOTRO Champion yellow line fifty trait point starter DPS/leveling AoE build guide also cover s. Ok, you want to make a Captain or, as we LOTRO geeks like to call them, a cappy. Hey guys, my wife and I are coming back to LOTRO after a couple years of being away. If you’re looking for a heavy Damage Over Time (DoT) class with self-healing potential to take on the enemies, these classes might be the best options for you. Depending on what you're trying to do, some you'll need help for, others you can do solo. At level 24 you get battle preparation which allows you to build gambits outside of combat. Best Virtue for Champion: Fidelity. B Tier: Buffing/debuffing and healing are the main tactics used by these classes, but they can deal damage if needed. Warden is easy mode rune keeper is a bit more work to play with. Goal is just solo leveling and exploring as I don’t care. This guide covers everything that you need to become a powerful Rune-Keeper. Tales will be told about their triumphant victories and how they turn tides from imminent defeat. For soloing, I would have to say either Champion or Warden. â As the de-facto DPS class that wonât get killed in 2 hits if we get aggro, itâs up to us to make all the bad. All classes in lotro are fine to play solo. 19. Beorning is easier to play and it’s pretty cool being able to turn into a bear. I will be your Host and Guide Zollin Ironshield! A Lord of the Rings Voice overs Channel and Guides plus so much more! Check Out All the Links and Info Belo. Sids1188 • 2 yr. The Champion is your go-to hack-and-slash class. Warden is high skill ceiling, rest is medium to low. Give me my champion shield trait back. While running a champion you can keep up a fairly quick pace of killing single enemies, or you can keep a more bursty pace of killing a group, recovering, then killing another group. ) cvr24 Gladden - Gorfrith • 3 yr. How much above depends on the class. RK has more flexibility in group settings. And both red and yellow champion can destroy landscape enemies for easy questing, and wear heavy armour. Which is better solo? They're both squishy tactical classes so you might have issues with survivability in the lower levels, but after 20-30 they can both handle everything the landscape throws at them. ago. 5% increase that the class inherently has. The Champion - All about that DPS. Overall just fairly easy to pull off and really efficient for killing certain mobs in a fort or clearing an area to pick up something :) Burg ist good to. 2H is really slow in both lines and not worth using. While levelling you usually go for offensive virtues since you are usually not in much danger and killing faster is useful. The only other profession that is regularly needed at the end game is the Cook, but if you want to sell end-game crafted material, Scholar is. The Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO) is a classic Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) set in the open world of Middle Earth, based on the expansive Lord of the Rings books by JRR Tolkien. Some of Lotro's toughest mobs primarily do tactical damage, so even for ranged dps having a bit of help here is nice. Warden can tank with Blue, DPS with Red, and provide some debuffs with Yellow. Try to also use Brutal Strikes twice every ~10-12s. Solo Class Help/Opinions. In your case, you will want to mix blue line and sacrifice some damage for champ. PLEASE give them a follow!Louey7 - is also great for solo play, but in groups, you will be expected to heal. From Wiki:3. . Champ can dual wield or wield 2h weapons. Captain Red Line Trait Analysis and Build Guide. Best solo class in 2021 aint gonna be the best solo class in 2030 when you cap, so it probably won’t matter. • 2 yr. BlueLine gives you nice tools for trying some instances solo. . Instead, seel the mats on AH for. Rune-keeper, Warden and Brawler have high utility in the form of their secondary roles. The red champion wielding a 2 hd weapon is doing massive amounts of ST melee damage. Use Controlled Burn. Yellow champ with trash. Minstrel (red spec; dps) is one of the easiest classes to kite mobs; hunter (blue spec) is easiest to kite mobs all day. The class is honestly just for fun, it takes a lot of work to make a whole new class with a game this big. In solo with the proper build your dps is more. Guardian Solo Red group Blue (or maybe yellow) Hunter Solo Blue Red group. For Champions, every 1 point of Vitality is equal to 4. If you want to solo group content like GB though, that's a different matter. These spellcasters use staff and a sword, wield magic, conjure lightning, and burst fire around. The key is that the lore-master has a bear to off-tank in a pinch in case the LM pulls aggro. ago. Yeah, Warden and Captain are both fun classes to play, but they are much more involved. If you truely just want 1 toon, I'd highly reccomend Explorer (you can gather everything from the landscape and trade with others for armor/weapons), Yeoman (food is a HUUGE boon) Tinkerer (Jewelry is also amazing in terms of stats) or Historian (scholar scrolls, plus weaponsmithing) Explorer to be able to mine and chop wood. The healing option on Captain is distracting you, it is not an actual option like Paladin in WoW (or Templar in ESO for that matter). Champion - As Champions are all about the AoE, having the incoming healing and morale regeneration from Fate can help you fight longer. You can respec to fill whichever role is needed. This is a Lord of the Rings Online guide on the red line specialization for the Captain, Lead the Charge . Champion red line kills single targets fastest, but again, we are talking in seconds. Occasionally you may run into difficulty jumps where you move from one expansion area to the next until you get some new gear (West Rohan comes to mind). Champion Starter Build Guide for the Lord of the Rings Online! LOTRO Champion yellow line fifty trait point starter DPS/leveling AoE build guide also cover s. Warden as of right now is better at solo content than guardian. The Champion class review and gameplay in the Lord of the Rings Online in 2023! I talk about what makes the Champion such a great class in LOTRO including in. Guardian is better at group content than warden. Welcome to our Beorning class guide for Lord of the Rings Online! This guide will cover the basics of playing a Beorning, the best virtues, crafting professions, and gameplay tips. I went blue line hunter all the way until level 130. You will loose some dps as dwarf champion, that's true, but it's not as bad as some make it sound. This is not a problem for Solo content and Open World. For solo content either is an excellent choice. It has easy, frontloaded damage and fairly. I started a burg and bear a couple months back and took them both to about lvl 15. Take advantage of these buff that the class has during fight on lower lvls. Fidelity is the better of the 2 tactical mitigation boosters due to its other two bonuses. Just a blender of death I like the guardian myself, sort of a champ in landscape, but more durable. • 1 yr. LotrO-HQ usually has decent class guides. VirtueView. Warden is incredibly survivable and has massive aoe dot if you play the right line. There are very few things that you won't be able to solo on landscape. This Skirmish is available to players level 20-140, and can be played Solo, Duo, Small Fellowship, Fellowship, or Raid. Having the herald makes up for it a little bit, but the cappy really shines in a proper group. . The best solo class in LOTRO depends on what you want to achieve in the game. Champion Yellow. Guardian works better in my opinion. [SSG Official] LOTRO Update 83: 'Corsairs of Umbar' Expansion Release Notes (Wednesday, November 8th)2) Loremaster. RK - Stout axe (3% fire dmg), Champion - men (animation speed, 5% 1h dmg + healing), high elf (sword dmg), Burglar - male men (animation speed), Hunter - elf (5% dmg), Warden, Captain, Minstrel - high elf (light damage), What are other good combinations not only. I could not solo with red or blue, yellow against large groups of mobs is absolutely ridiculous. To describe it as best I can, Champs are about keeping your Fervour full all the time and constantly being able to use your big spenders. Both are viable for leveling and end game. While it does cater to more hardcore players with high tier group content, all of the solo landscape is easy enough for every class to do. It’s held true on the three servers I checked. I would love to explore to do old game content without having to focus on latest stuff. extremely tanky, lower end of dps but good enough for landscape content, and a good amount of utility and sustain. The way one handles the tornado is just eat one tick of the damage and let it go. youll also find as a captain you can basically recruit anyone to do instances with you and keep them up while tanking. So I’m going to start a new toon in anticipation for the new mini expansion zones (on my main I have never gotten past Isengard expansion for reference). Ridiculous how you deal more aoe dps on single target stance than on aoe stance. You can just randomly press few buttons for solo content. The best solo class in the Lord of the Rings Online! LOTRO has 11 classes, all capable of solo gameplay, but which is the best LOTRO class for solo and level. Last update: June. These one to twelve-person instances are designed to provide a short and targeted fix of combat, with linear objectives and a. Sardonislamir • 1 yr. Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 08/02/2013 - 15:46. 1-hander, a tanking 1-hander, a DPS 2-hander, a DPS rune and a tanking. They are incredibly sturdy using damage reduction and self-heal skills, which is perfect for dealing with mitigation-reducing bosses. Burg is pretty easy to play solo. I love jack-of-all-trades classes in MMO's, and these two classes seem to fit the bill. Captains can go 2-hander in DPS mode or use use 1-hander + shield which up their armor, damage reduction + add blocking, whereas Champions only get parry as your options are dual-wield or 2 hander. Amazon Games VP Throws Shade at LOTRO over new. Best class for starting solo player? Hello everyone!! I'm about to start playing lotro and I'm most likely going to be solo for most of it, so I was wondering what the best. Blue LM is pet focused and that can be great for solo play but at later levels (105+) the power of the pets becomes very little compared to even landscape enemies. ago. New lotro player : champion leveling. This makes it very slightly better to use daggers on a stout axe burglar that using a sword on a man or elf. Here are the class traits I think are best for this build of a LOTRO champion. ago. Well, a DPS paired with a tank or healer is the best "class", at least based on my 30+ T10 completions. Remember: dead mobs do no damage. The Champion is a one-man goon squad when it comes to soloing. They have Song of Distraction that allows you to single pull groups, a fear to separate pulls, a bubble to absorb damage, a feint ability to clear aggro, a quick stun, an interrupt that also does an enormous amount of damage from a distance and can be cast immediately. Be aware that you are getting answers where people confuse. Blue line for your hunter, lets you run around while you attack. I think the simplest, most survivable for me (that do decent damage) are red line minstrels, red line captains, blue hunters, and most champions (I usually run dual wield red but occasionally yellow). Problem with dps is the slow build up of damage and lack of emergency burst for some nuke phases in raids. If you prefer close combat and heavy armour, Champion might be worth a look. Makes surviving easy. · Yellow: DPS – Focuses on lightning spells for mobility and to deal instant damage with large critical hits. Healer has to heal that. Find the best LOTRO Class Builds, Guides, Tips & Tricks here! Champions are an excellent class for solo levelling, with decent survivability and excellent melee dps both for AoE and single-target. Makes solo nice and easy. Seems much more prefered in endgame. All 3 are in demand at the moment (no guarantee they will still be in demand when you reach level cap). All are useful at cap. In theory, I like beornings a lot. Wardens seem to be capable of higher DPS than Hunters, and can solo difficult content (like fellowship quests and perhaps even dungeons) more easily than Hunters. Sardonislamir • 1 yr. May 9, 2023. I don't know of any 4 or 5 man quests. Both classes have good survivability (at least before l100) and both classes have a significant speed buff which helps trigger some levers meant for multiple people. DPS on blue guardian is significantly better than DPS on yellow captain. ago. probably the best overall solo class is the captain as stated in other comments. Champion Yellow. Guardians will usually have to tank. If you're only going to play solo, play champion, because guardians are so much slower. For solo play so I need a self sufficient class. If you want to heal on minstrel, you will definitely want to have 2 sets of 2x legendary items; 1 set for healing and 1 set for dps. I'm running the 2-player version of the instance with my L113 yellowline Champion. Yes, Hunter is very strong with single-target DPS. ago. You can live without the teleport skills, especially if you have swift travel unlocked. arkTanlis. r/lotro. ago. The Champion is a one-man goon squad when it comes to soloing. Taerdan • 9 mo. But it's a much more difficult class to master than Champion. Are there other instances in the game of quests having actual dialogue for your character that I've missed? I don't think I've seen this before.